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Author Topic: DOC Rules? MO notice??  (Read 711 times)
JEFF LAM YUET
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« on: March 18, 2009, 02:05:53 PM »

Currently our DOC issued rules to limit residents to speak in meeting. I think it is crazy and also breach of DOC's role to communicate with residents. We are the owners to vote them, to let them represent us but now they limit us to speak? I cannot understand the ground behind this, and I personally dissatisified with our DOC. For those who propose such an unfair rule on residents, I think they should resign from their position to apologize.

Besides this, MO also issued a notice to limit owners' with second martgage to attend and speak and vote in the EGM general meeting to vote the cleaning and security contracts which costs us way over $30,000,000 from management fund. We have checked BMO government law and DMC, stated that owners with second mortgage DO have rights to vote in EGM/AGM, unless their properties has been taken over by banks, also they are paying management fee, which the fee will be used for contracts pass in those meeting. Ii see no reason and no ground to ban those owners from meetings. MO's action to restrict owners' voice is same as our DOC at the moment. DOC should be owners' representative, but not MO, not MTR, not developer, not contractors! I hope none of them will be doing any dirty trick to affact our residents' rights!!! They better not!
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 02:11:42 PM by JEFF LAM » Logged

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Dizzy Kipper
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« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2009, 04:31:59 PM »

But who really thought the MTR would cede control of its property? Owners are like ticks to them, annoying little buggers to be flicked away...
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JEFF LAM YUET
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« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2009, 04:39:23 PM »

MTR has been using different methods to achieve their tender preference, like the lift maintainance contract in SVC, they so "hard sell" OTIS, but luckily owners won developers' vote at the end and saved 60% costs.

I think CK will vote this time too, but MTR fears to repeat the SVC case this time in CC and fear small owners united to vote another option against them, so they try to limit the number of small owners' votes.

We check DMC and BMO law, none of them allow MTR to limit second mortgage owners to vote. This is totally unacceptable.

Besides this, DOC as owners' representative but disallow owners to talk in meeting, this is also crazy! They are good partners of MTR now, we must demand CHANGE!!!
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JEFF LAM YUET
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« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2009, 05:55:22 PM »

attended DOC meeting last night til 1:45AM.

Disappointed to the meeting.

Disappointed to their proposed rules.

Disappointed to the DOC and certain members.

Disappointed to the results and work they have/havn't done so far...........

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Icarus
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« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2009, 06:12:34 PM »

MTR has been using different methods to achieve their tender preference, like the lift maintainance contract in SVC, they so "hard sell" OTIS, but luckily owners won developers' vote at the end and saved 60% costs.

I think CK will vote this time too, but MTR fears to repeat the SVC case this time in CC and fear small owners united to vote another option against them, so they try to limit the number of small owners' votes.

We check DMC and BMO law, none of them allow MTR to limit second mortgage owners to vote. This is totally unacceptable.

Besides this, DOC as owners' representative but disallow owners to talk in meeting, this is also crazy! They are good partners of MTR now, we must demand CHANGE!!!

I normally just sit back and let people form their own opinions but I have read your postings on this and other subjects Mr Lam. You are clearly a self publicist whose intentions may or may not be altruistic. I reserve my opinion and only time will tell. You major problem seems to be that the voters just don't seem to want to elect you to a position of authority here in CC or other estates in Tung Chung despite your numerous campaigns.

You advocate democracy but because the duly elected DOC do not follow your agenda you cry foul. The logical reason for limiting speakers at meetings is obvious if you have attended previous meetings which have run into the early hours of the following morning. Unfortunately these matters have a way of degenerating into running arguments over the same issues, unrelated points and end up not resolving anything. That is why all meetings require an agenda, rules and some discipline.

A more important issue here than everybody having their rant is the necessity for a attendance/proxy quorum of 10% of total owners to enable the DOC to question & control the security budgets. If all 10% did attend that would mean over 50 potential speakers??? Without that quorum the MO will have their way and the budgets will pass through. This is a time for unity not personal power brokering.

If you have some overwhelming argument or point, make a written submission to have it included in the agenda. The DOC will accede to it if it has merits or reject giving good cause. Shouting dissent from the back of the room or trying overpower the meeting is not the best way to conduct such important issues.

Constrained by a restrictive DMC, the DOC have done some sterling work in negotiating budget revisions, the replacement of the faulty floor tiles at developers cost and other important matters. Whilst you have a head on attitude to dispute resolution, theirs  is a more pragmatic & diplomatic approach which to date has been very effective & without legal cost. Your inference that the DOC are in some way sympathetic or in league with the MO is pure fantasy given the heated and continual battles between the two parties. Their only faux pas if it is one, is perhaps is unlike you they don't "spin" their activities on this and other forums.

If you want to change matters, do so by the rules and get elected. If you really are the peoples champion and voters believe in you and your principles they will elect you. If they don't please don't force your politics upon the majority or decry the system and it's representatives irresponsibly.

BTW. I am not a member of or in any associated with the DOC

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JEFF LAM YUET
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« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2009, 07:50:38 PM »

thx for your opinion.

Disallowing residents to speak is in breach of DOC duty in communicating with owners and MO, so no efficiency nor results can be done by DOC in this term.

let's stick with facts, what our DOC "achieved" in the coming cleaning and security contract tendering? today, we residents still dunno anything about it but we are told to vote on 27/3. I can surly guess that under the fake so-called open tender and lack of monitoring by DOC in CC, we will have no much choices but the very same several expensive tenderers to choose from same as before, let's see on 27/3, fact will tell.

In contrast, we have forced MTR to return pre-operating fee, MR on capital fund, place tender box IN estates, SVC already has its tender box installed TODAY, fight MTR to the court for cases, fight residents' rights in terms of block 56 land, HK-MACAU bridge issues, changed MTR tendering process to listen more ot the residents, put pressure to MTR by media, by many meetings, by residential activities, etc. Seeing is believing, no need to subjective predict or defend anyone you dislike or like. As you said, let residents to judge. Thanks.

btw, I was just expressing my disatisfaction, don't have to be too sensitive and personal. thx.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2009, 09:00:45 PM by JEFF LAM » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2009, 10:12:04 AM »

I see from a notice in the lobby, a quorum is 588 residents so I assume Icarus's 50 speakers is a typo.

Jeff: how do you propose to let 588 speak ?

Let me know otherwise I will have to book a week off work. Grin
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« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2009, 11:53:24 AM »

How r the doc going to get some 500 flat owners 2 the meeting?
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« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2009, 02:17:24 PM »

Jeff,  I am sympathetic to a lot of your goals and appreciative that you have managed to accomplish some success.  But you cannot at the same time complain that DOC does not achieve anything as well as complain that we propose not to allow owners to speak.  The DOC is NOT a forum to allow communication with owners.  There is nothing that says it should be.  It is not a town hall meeting.  It is a forum to conduct the business of the estate by its representatives with the MO present.  Constant disruptions from the floor prevent this from happening.  DOC can be compared to Legco.  There the public is invited to attend, but not to participate.

We realise that there must be avenues for owners to communicate their views with the DOC.  OC phase subcommittees serve this function.  We also proposed special meetings for owners to air their views to DOC.  And there are always written avenues to communicate.  So it cannot be said that your views cannot be communicated.

We want DOC meetings to be effective and efficient.  A small number of owners prevent this happening.  They do not represent the majority of owners.  They should not be allowed to be disruptive.

One day you may well be on the DOC Jeff.  I hope you will be.  Then you will discover that it is much harder to accomplish something through positive action then coming to meeting with a bullhorn.

When you run for OC Jeff, I will support you.  I want you to contribute your talents on the other side.  and then let all the people judge how you are doing.

Jonathan
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« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2009, 04:08:35 PM »

We will be away when the coming meeting takes place how do we vote by proxy?
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JEFF LAM YUET
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« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2009, 06:48:54 PM »

Ask MO to give you a form, authorise someone you know to vote for you on the day, beware, don't take advice from MO about who to authorise, only trust yourself and someone you trust. THANKS.
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