Phase 2 pools to close for 7 months!!

[charles]

got this in the mail this morning!

Did you know that all phase 2 swimming pools (indoor and outdoor) will be closed from Oct 1st until April 30th (for "cost saving measures")? For 7 months of the year, we will have one pool to swim in - phase 1 indoor pool. As you know, phase 2 indoor pool is much more kid friendly than phase 1 ( it's warmer and shallower). And for people that actually like to swim (laps), phase 1 pool will become very crowded. If you enjoy the pools as much as my family does, PLEASE COMPLAIN to the management office. I spoke to someone there named Vincent yesterday; he has already received a number of complaints and said they may consider other options. What is the point of having these beautiful pools if they are closed for more than half the year?!

1st of October is next week 

anyone have any channel to confirm if this is true or just a rumor? A bit pathetic to have that big outdoor pool running for 5 months a year (minus closing it as soon as there's a typhoon anywhere near our planet, lightning strikes within 800km of tung chung, etc etc)
 

[Zorro]

If this is true then we need to get rid of the guys on the HOA...

[garyhk]

How can cost saving be the explanation?

There is obvious demand, if there is a cost problem increase the usage fees and not just withdraw the service.  This is really poor.  One reason for moving here were the facilities; if this is allowed to progress there is a risk to property values.   

Why do the outdoor pools need to be closed for such a long time?  Why not 1 November to end February?  That would be reasonable.

[fobinhk]

I was browsing through the notices in the lift waiting area of Tower 5. There was a list of things and how much money they would save if they stopped/reduced them.  As I was browsing the one about the Phase 2 swimming pool stood out.

These could be just proposals, not sure if they're definitely going ahead as I didn't read it in detail...so check out your notice boards!

[JEFF LAM YUET]

cos some people in the estate didn't monitor well of the poor MO spending in the past, and the some/same people voted for more expensive but worse service cleaning and security contracts, we are now suffering for their mistakes by reducing cleaning and security staff, cutting services here and there to offset their over spending. We have chased for long time and fight in court to win some $$$ back from MTR to the estate, but compare to the big spending budget, it is nothing. SO, we owners must be united and support good people to serve us, please see the facts and don't be mislead by anyone not truly representing owners of us kind. Thanks.

[JEFF LAM YUET]

from my understanding, MO wants to close PH 2 clubhouse both in and outdoor pools from OCT to MAY. close phase 1 outdoor poor at the same time and keep indoor pool opened only. Thx to those big spenders. Now it really affacts our property value.

[DrBubb]

Have you any idea how much the pools cost PER SWIMMER?

I think the real question is:
How much of a subsidy should the non-swimmers allow for the swimmers?

Sorry to be so blunt, but ultimately, it comes down to questions like this

Some here may want to pretend that these questions dont exist, but they are rooted in the reality of choices that Owners and their representatives will have to make.

[Icarus]

from my understanding, MO wants to close PH 2 clubhouse both in and outdoor pools from OCT to MAY. close phase 1 outdoor poor at the same time and keep indoor pool opened only. Thx to those big spenders. Now it really affacts our property value.

If I remember right you were one of the biggest advocates of cutting costs and on this manifesto were elected as one of the "guardians of the owners purse". When you cut things to the bone these things are bound to happen.

You are my elected representative so perhaps you should sort it out rather than blame others even if justified? What are you going to do about it is the real point?

And as you mention it. What has happened to all this money you have got from MTR and how is it going to be applied?

[Zorro]

Dr. Bubb raises a valid point. Yes lets close phase 1 pools for the winter and also as I am not a user of the busses please can we stop the busses for the winter as well as we dont need the air con comfort during the winter.

Can we set up a committee to look qat getting rid of the free shuttle bus?

[garyhk]

I would like to disagree.

If we start closing down this facility, boarding up that facility, dispensing with the shuttle buses do you not think that this place becomes wholly unattractive to live in?  Personally, I don't mind the 15 minute walk to and from the MTR BUT not everyone thinks that way, especially in HK.  Remove the pools, get rid of the kindergarten, shut the gym, get rid of the security guards, get rid of the shuttle bus and this place will end up like some out post of Tin Shui Wai or whatever its called.  The whole attractiveness of CC includes the shuttle bus, the pools and all the facilities.  If we start dismantling them, even one by one, the place loses all its allure.  Property values will fall creating an ever decreassing circle of negativeness.  we should be aiming to create value, create allure and make this a happening place.

Surely, the point is to manage the money.  Follow the money.  These 5,400+ units generate a huge amount of monthly services charges, the facilities generate huge usage fees this is where concentration of effort should be not snipping at the edges and downgrading the whole place.  Just because the hopeless management operation could not manage does not mean we should get rid of facilities, we need the facilities.  They just need to be managed properly.

It does feel like time for the residents to take charge.  How to do it?

[charles]

Zorro was being sarcastic, probably, but Gary you're totally right. If 'them' want to switch to pay-per-use then that's fine, same goes for the bus then, or playgrounds, bicycle parking, ice skating rink, etc

Blubb the presence of these pools does not have any effect on the value of your shoeboxes?

[DrBubb]

It's not about taking credit for good things, or blaming others for what goes wrong,
it is about facing reality, and making tough choices.

The Pools ARE expensive.  There's no getting around that.

There ARE activities that cost big money.  There ARE parts of the clubhouse that are under-utilised.

We need facts and figures to make decisions.  You (and others) are right to chase those facts and
and figures.  I am quite happy to remain anonymous in the the chase and decision process.  What
matters is having facts and figures to make the right decisions, and listening to the issues that
are important to Owners at CC.

If others, such as Zorro, think they can do the job better- and perhap they can - I am happy to step
aside and let them do it.  There are only so many hours in the day. And the DOC meeting seem to
go on into the long hours of the night

[JEFF LAM YUET]

from my understanding, MO wants to close PH 2 clubhouse both in and outdoor pools from OCT to MAY. close phase 1 outdoor poor at the same time and keep indoor pool opened only. Thx to those big spenders. Now it really affacts our property value.

If I remember right you were one of the biggest advocates of cutting costs and on this manifesto were elected as one of the "guardians of the owners purse". When you cut things to the bone these things are bound to happen.

You are my elected representative so perhaps you should sort it out rather than blame others even if justified? What are you going to do about it is the real point?

And as you mention it. What has happened to all this money you have got from MTR and how is it going to be applied?

I support any cost cutting that DOES NOT affect our living standard here, that can be achieved by better estate management, e.g. better and fair tendering process to lower the costs, better savings within MO to spend less of our blood money, apply some environmental friendly and energy saving policies to lower the costs in longer term, etc.

Some OC/DOC over spend 4 million when they are/were in power, they even voted expensive cleaning and security contracts with worse service and MO now cuts cost by cutting our service, cutting staff number on cleaning and security, this is not acceptable, and this is certainly NOT what I stand for. For those pro-those-pro-MO OC/DOC, you better ask what they have done to us......................... so we have to suffer from these.

[charles]

Bubb the pools have been expensive since year dot - they knew that when they build it. However, do you really need 4 ppl downstairs to make an easy entrance difficult by signing off silly papers etc etc.

You like to talk about cost cutting, but why does CC need the highly integrated octopus card access system, 6 million cctv cameras all over the place, at least one concierge per block, at least one guard standing per entrance, 250,000 funny uniform ppl walking up and down (with digital cameras). And then if something does happen they still only call the police.

Why do ALL the lights all over CC and surroundings have to be on all through the night - are we competing with the airport? Is it a safety issue for incoming airplanes? It is spectacular - but to whose benefit?

Maybe they can do the same as with the climbing walls: require a PADI open water/ice diver certificate and keep the pools open. To make this operation viable, they can start their own diving school in the kiddie's pool.

[Zorro]

Charles,

You got the point. Security is over kill. It is staff, octo cards, lights and video cameras.

It really has nothing to do with saftey as HK is one of the safest palces in the world.

It has nothing to do with keeping non cc residents out as if someone wants to come to CC from central to swim or buy a flat, let tem in, we all benefit.

It simply has to do with the 10% over ride the MTR gets on expesnes etc...
If I was the MTR I would be doing the same thing... good on them.

It is a waste of time complaining as we do not get control the place till 2 years after completion of the final phase... the final phase is the low rise in front of us so lets start this discussion again in 3 years time.

Dr. Bubb gives it a good go but he is banging his head against the wall as we do not control the place and he is not helped by self serving budding politicans who like to send letters to diff govt depts for a fair and equatable time.... no names but if you look for a chap whose initials are JL you will get my drift.